First critique of the “Word of the Kingdom”

The attached PDF file is Mark Adams’ first critique of the “Word of the Kingdom,” as taught by Arlen L. Chitwood (Lamp Broadcast) and Pastor John Herbert (Cornerstone Christian Fellowship, Jacksonville, Florida). It was published in Nov. 2007.

Title: “A Critique of the Word of the Kingdom teaching, Outlining three critical objections”

To download, right-click and select “save target as…” — Critique of “Word of the Kingdom”

© 2007, Mark Adams. All rights reserved.

31 thoughts on “First critique of the “Word of the Kingdom”

  1. Hi Mark;
    Do you believe man is a trinity made of spirit, soul and body? If you do, would you give your explaination of each?
    Also, do you believe all believers in Christ are equal in The Kingdom of The Heavens?

  2. Theologically speaking, man is not trinity. If by trinity you mean simply three, that is another matter. Please define “trinity.”

    As regards Christians after the resurrection, I appeal to 1 John 3:2 — we will be like him. Again, however, we run into a term which needs explanation, “equal.” If by equal you mean “same,” then I appeal to Gal. 3:28: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, ther is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

  3. You are correct, theologically man is not a trinity.
    Bad choice of words on my part.
    Let me ask it as simple as I can. Do you beleive Adam was created with three parts; Spirit, Soul and Body?

  4. Belief? I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (cf. Rom. 10:9). This is saving knowledge. Whether Adam is a dichotomous or trichotomous being is a matter of understanding, i.e. interpretation. What one believes about this subject does not save.

    As regards my understanding, here is what Genesis says: “The Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.” Here, the Bible says man has two parts: a material aspect and a non-material aspect. Some might conclude that the act of combining these two parts creates/constitutes a third, but that is speculation.

    In any event, man is a whole being, saved entirely by the blood of Christ. No part of man is saved by works.

  5. I agree with you on the fact that understanding if Adam was made of three parts or two parts does not determine ones eternal salvation. One can only be saved by beleiving that Jesus Christ died in our substitute. That is the Grace of our God; and one can do nothing to earn that salvation.
    As to your ref; to Gen 2:7 lets look a little closer.
    I will agree we definatly see to parts of Adam. We see a physical body made from the Earth, and we see man became a living soul; a living, breathing creature; he had a life. But there was something that made Adam diferent than Gods other Earthly creatures, Adam was divine. Why? Because God breathed life into Adam. One must be alive spiritually to live in the presents of God through out the ages. Scripture does not say God breathed life into the animals, He only had to speak them into existence. I said all that to say this for you to consider. Look at Gen 2:7 again and think about this:
    1.Adam had a physical body. (body)
    2.Adam was divine by the breath of God. (spirit)
    3.Adam had a life with a free will. (soul)
    When Adam ate the forbiden fruit he died spiritually. He was no longer divine; he became a mortal man. Then his body began to die. Now Adam still had a soul; (a life). Ref; Gen 3:21. God provided Adam and Eve with coats of skin. God killed an animal, a sinless creature and offered these coats of skin to Adam and Eve to cover their sin. This was a work that only God could do, and Adam could do nothing to add to, or take away from this free gift. He only had to beleive. This is salvation by grace. And it is eternal. Now look at Gen 3:23. (Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground). Ater Adam was saved he was told to labor (work). This had nothing to do with saving his spirit, nor his physical body. This had to do with his life; (SOUL). Mathew 16:27 (For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works). Read this in the context of the previous verses, Mathew 16:24,25,26.
    The whole point of the matter is this, I agree with you on salvation by grace through faith. But that is not what we are dealing with here. We are not dealing with the ever lasting ages and works. We are dealing with this present age, and the coming age of one thousand years. Eternity does not begen till after the next age of one thousand years. Lets look at Mathew 16:24,25.Jesus said “if any man will come after me, let him deny him self, and take up his cross and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it”. Search the word (life) in the Greek. The word life and soul are both translated from one Greek word; (psoo-khay’) and that is not . You must admit, a lost man cannot take up his cross, nor deny himself because the things of God are foolish to the lost. One does not work for eternal security; one works for a reward, a position of rulership in the coming age. If you allow Christ to do more works through you, than I let him work through me you will receive a higher position in the next age of (1000 years). But on the other hand if one christian is more sinful than a nother than his postion of punishment is greater than the other. This is a JUST RECOMPENCE ref; Hebrews 2:2,3.
    You said “No man is saved by works”. Ref; James 2:24
    (Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only). Once again we are not dealing with eternal salvation, we are dealing with being prepared to go before the Judgment Seat of Christ, to be judged for the works done in the body in this present age. Ref; 1 Corinthians 3:12,13,14,15.
    One other thing. You showed the Bible says that man has at least to parts; “a material aspect and a non-material aspect”. Take that fact in Gen 2:7 and look at Hebrews 4:12 (For the word of God is quick, and powerfull, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.)
    Here we plainly see what the Holy Spirit is telling us. That man is three parts; spirit, soul and body.
    We see two non-material aspects and one material aspect in Hebrews 4:12. You cannot equate the spirit with the soul; the scripture does not allow it. And you cannot equate the soul with the flesh; scripture does not allow it.
    Hebrews 4:12 break down:
    1.(soul) Greek (psoo-khay’) non-material
    2.(spirit) Greek (pnyoo’-mah) non-material
    3.(joints and marrow) material
    And we see that all three have a will. So which one is rightious and which is contrary to God.
    a..We that are saved know our (spirit) is perfect, through and by the finished work of Christ; we cannot add to or take away from His finished work on the cross. So the will of mans newborn spirit is to do the will of God. The sprit of the beleiver is perfect!
    b..We know the body of flesh we presently have now will not be redeemed until the rapture. So it is contrary to God!
    c..That leaves the (soul) of a man. Now sense we already had a life (soul) before we were saved: we, just like Adam, after he was saved, and God told him when leaving the Garden of Eden to till the ground, Adam had to make a choice; Obay God or disobay God. Adam obayed, and that made him an overcomer; we read no where else in scripture that Adam ever disobayed God again. HE WORKED! Now we must obay God and work also, not for our eternal salvation, but for our reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ. 1 Corinthians 3:13 (Every mans work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is. If any mans work abide that he hath built thereupon, he shall recieve a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned he shall suffer loss: but he him self shall be saved; yet so as by fire). We know that this is the Judgment Seat of Christ, and that only saved people will stand before the Lord at this judgment. My question to the reader is this. What is being saved by this literal fire? It can’t be the sprit of a man, because the spirit of the believer has been made perfect by the finished work of Christ!
    The body is redeemed after the rapture; because of the reserection of Christ! So that would leave only the life of the beleiver: The (soul)! That is why we must stand before Christ Jesus; to be judged on the way we lived our lives in this present age. Mathew 16:25 (For whosoever will save his life shall lose it:
    and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. This means to nail the old man, your old sin nature,(YOUR SOUL) to your own cross. Deny your self- will and let Christ do rightious works through you: This is acceptable in the eyes of our thrice Holy God!
    The Bible was not wrote for the lost: a lost person is dead spiritually, and scripture is spiritually dicerned. The Word of God was sent to prepare, guide, and to encourage the beleiver in the things to come.
    These are facts of the Word of God! Not .

  6. In my last comment, I noticed two incomplete sentences. Those setences should end with “speculation”. I don’t know why they’re gone from my comment. So remember that “speculation” should be in the two incomplete sentences.

  7. Your explanation of Gen. 2:7 introduces a lot of ideas. In part, you wrote:

    “1.Adam had a physical body. (body)
    2.Adam was divine by the breath of God. (spirit)
    3.Adam had a life with a free will. (soul)”

    This is not a conclusion drawn from Gen. 2:7, but rather a theological construction based on your interpretation of the scriptures. By the same measure, one might, from his or her understanding of the scriptures, argue that man exists in two parts: physical material drawn from the earth and the breath of God. Gen. 2:7 certainly lends itself to that interpretation.

    My point, however, is not to argue whether man is two-part or three-part, dichotomous or trichotomous. My point is that what you have written above is simply an interpretation of the scriptures. If your argument is that what you wrote is what the Bible says, that is simply not the case.

    I don’t personally take a position on whether man is dichotomous or trichotomous, though I certainly acknowledge he has parts. In any case, he is a whole being, saved wholly by the blood of Christ through faith. No part of a man’s salvation is conditional. Are we called to works? Yes. Will we be judged according to our work? Yes. But that judgment is the Lord’s. I cannot accept a false teaching that proposes Christians will be cast from God’s presence or demoted in rank in the millennial kingdom. Rev. 20 never mentions such a thing. Nor is such a thing mentioned anywhere in scripture.

    I have issued this challenge before, and I will issue it again: I challenge advocates of kingdom exclusion (or whatever you choose to call it) to produce ONE scripture that says carnal Christians will be chastised during the thousand-year rule of Christ.

  8. Mark that is the first clear answer you have given me, and I appreciate a good honest answer.
    Now to the subject. Mark you cannot deny the (fact) that Hebrews 4:12 supports mine, and many others interpretation of scripture. By comparing scripture with scripture we see these (truths); that cannot be explained away by one who chooses to only understand the (milk) of the Word of God. In Hebrews 4:12 we see three distinct parts of a saved individual; the spirit; the soul; and the body. You cannot deny, or explaine that (fact) away. Like I said in my comment, compare Hebrews 4:12 with Genesis 2:7. That is not “a theologicl construction based on your interpretation of scripture” as you replied in your comment to me. Also it’s impossible to draw a conclution that a saved person is only made of two parts because of Hebrews 4:12 ( For the Word of God is quick, powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piecing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thought’s and intents of the heart.)
    1.spirit… (non-material)
    2.soul… (non-material)
    3.body…. joints, marrow, heart; (material)
    It is a clear (fact) that the Word of God divides these three parts of saved individuals. So for your comment in ref; to my interpretation, you said “If your argument is that what you wrote is what the Bible says, that is simply not the case.” You should have paid more attntion to Hebrews 4:12. According to Hebrews 4:12 that is what the Bible says. If you choose to ignore the (facts) of scripture that is your decision. I am not trying to persuade you one way or the other, I only wish you would see the whole (Gospel of Christ) instead of only part of it. The milk of the Word is easy to understand, but the meat of the Word takes prayer and study of Gods Word from the first page to the last page. You can never see, or understand the deeper truths by looking at only half of (The Gospel of Christ). With that said, once again I agree with you that the Blood of Jesus Christ is saving knowledge through out the ages, (eternity). But once again I must point out the (fact) that we are not dealing with eternity; were are dealing with a 1,000 year period of time, (the next age). I’m not sure if you have a clear understanding of the Kingdom age, because it seems you think that all humans, saved or lost have reached a climax of existense at the end of this age; that is not the case.
    The christian is a heavenly people, recieving a heavenly reward determined by works done in the body in this present age, after salvation by grace through faith. Ref; 1 Cor; 3:12,13,14,15.
    In the Millenniam you have three classes of people; 1. the Bride of Christ which have a glorified body of flesh and bone, animated by the spirit; and rules along side of Christ, from the heavens over the Earth with the ability to go to and froe. 2. you have Israel, an Earthly people in a flesh, and bone body animated by the blood. 3. you have the Gentiles that make it through the tribulation, and they have flesh and bone bodies animated by the blood, and Israel will rule over the Gentiles , ref; Joel chapters 1,2,3.
    If one stops hear he might think things are finished. But you must relize that these Earth dwellers will have children for 1,000 years and all of these children will be tempted by Satan when he is loosed from the bottomless pitt at the end of the Millenniam, and part of these children will rebel against (The Glory of Christ) and they,the devil, and his angels will then feel the wrath of (The Glory of Christ)! So you see that man is not made complete until the end of the Millenniam, because of his self will. Even with the knowing of (The Glory of Christ) individuals still rebel. Saved individuals rebeled in the past, saved individuals rebel in the present, and they will also rebel in the Millennial Kingdom After Satan is loosened from the bottomless pitt.ref; Rev; 20:9 and notice the (fire). Fire is always used in heavenly judgments. I have said all that to say this, (Man) is incomplete: and will not be complete till the end of the Millenniam. But we in this church dispensation have the chance to be complete at the end of this present age, and that is (The Gospel of The Glory of Christ). That is (The Word of The Kingdom).

  9. As to your challenge of someone proving “Kingdom Exclusion”, and “to produce ONE scripture that says carnel Christians will be chastised during the 1,000 year-rule of Christ”. If the Holy Spirit of God can’t prove these things to you, I will never prove any thing to you. I am not trying to prove any thing, I’m only presenting these things for you to consider in your own study. I challenge you, to search the facts I gave you in Hebrews 4:12, about the three parts of a saved individual (spirit, soul and body) before you foolishly say; these things I, and others only present to other beleivers in Christ are “a false teaching”. I pray you will except my advice not as a point of contention, but as a brother in Christ Jesus to consider.
    To see these spiritual gleanings of the scriptures, that pertain to our, discusions and debate on this subject matter you have to realize, that saved people are made of three parts. It is crucial to see the (spirit, soul and body). If you fail to understand this because of what you beleive, or what tradtion would have you beleive, you will never see (The Gospel of The Glory of Christ). You are to smart to be dooped by such things! As far as showing you one scripture that shows christians will be chastized in the next age, I will do much better than that. When reading these verses, remember the context of the verses. Jesus is not speaking to lost people in these verses. I will keep it simple, and stay only in one book of the Bible for you to start with in your study of this subject.
    Mathew, 16:26
    Mathew, 5:22
    Mathew, 5:29,30
    Mathew, 10:28
    Mathew, 18:8,9
    Mathew, 23:15
    Mathew, 13:22
    Mathew, 23:33
    In these verses you must take the time to look at the following: 1. Look at the context. 2. Look at the words in their Greek form; hell or Gehenna, soul, life, world, everlasting. Remember that everlasting has two ways of being used in the Greek. Everlasting is translated from the Greek word (aionios) and is used as an adjective most of the time, meaning age lasting. The other use of (aionios) is a plural form meaning through out the ages (eternity). If you fail to take the time to use the information I have gave you than you want nothing more than to argue. So I would have to say the same thing now that I said in my first comment to you several months ago, “you are being very closed minded about this subject”. That is not an attack on your character but an observation of your points of criticism. I have gave you an answer to your challenge, and now I challenge you to study these points, Before calling them “a false teaching”.

  10. Your treatment of Heb. 4:12 is yet an interpretation, not an established fact. You wrote, “…we see three distinct parts of a saved individual…” No, we see two or four distinct parts (maybe five), not three.

    “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul[1] and of spirit[2], of joints[3] and of marrow[4], and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart[5].”

    For reasons unexplained, you consider “joints,” “marrow” and “heart” to be one part, i.e. the body. By that logic, one might argue that “spirit” and “soul” are also a part, i.e. the second part of a human. If we are to read “spirit” and “soul” as distinct parts (and not as synonyms for the non-material aspect of humans), then we must also see “joints,” “marrow” and “heart” as separate, distinct parts. However you slice it, that is two or five parts, not three.

    The linguistic structure of Heb. 4:12 (its parallel structure) suggests the author of Hebrews sees man as a dichotomous being (physical and non-physical being). The division is between soul and spirit and joints and marrow, that is, between two aspects of being. This is followed by a further parallel structure, between “dividing” and “discerning.”

    What makes a human a human is indeed an interesting study, but to say that one knows for sure, or that one has the “facts,” is to advance theological speculation to an unwholesome place. It is not “a clear (fact) that the Word of God divides these three parts of saved individuals.”

  11. What you advance about the millennial kingdom is highly speculative and creative. That those who reign with Christ in Rev. 20 will have children, who will later be tempted, is simply not found in the text. Using the same creative powers, one might argue that those reigning with Christ will be celibate, and that those who are tempted will be those not caught up in the rapture, i.e. non-believers. Which interpretation is correct? Unfortunately, the text is deafeningly silent on that point.

    One thing is certain, those who are tempted are not inside, reigning with Christ: “And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them.” One does not surround from the inside.

  12. Lastly, Arlen, you write: “If the Holy Spirit of God can’t prove these things to you, I will never prove any thing to you.” Well, as the Holy Spirit has inspired the Word of God, you needn’t prove anything. Simply provide the scripture reference that says carnal Christians will be excluded/punished in the millennial kingdom. That shouldn’t be hard to do, if such a thing is to be found in scripture. Until then, I advise you to stop lecturing. After four or five years studying this issue, no single advocate of exclusion (defined in the bold-faced statement above) has ever produced a passage or collection of passages, supporting Chitwood’s claim. That you and the others are incapable of seeing this is astonishing; that you and the others fail utterly to understand that what you champion is merely speculation, unfounded in scripture is frustrating. Whatever you do, please do not assume a sanctimonious attitude toward me on this matter. You haven’t earned the right yet.

  13. You can avoid the obvious if you like, I have no problem with you doing that. But the readers of this discussion between you and I, may decide to search deeper than their oppinion. (Fact) and (speculation). You are not doing a very good job of explaining away the (facts) that Hebrews 4:12 clearly present.
    3.joints and marrow… body (material)
    Your attempt to dicredit my comment only backs up what I said even more. You are taking three of the material elements of one (material-body) and making three material parts to come up with your possible five part arguement, in your what if explaination.
    I don’t deal with (what if) or (some one could argue) I deal with what the scripture says. Hebrews 4:12 is a (fact) and no matter how hard you try you can not explaine it away with philosophy.
    As to providing verses to your challenge, I gave you more than one, and I only used one book of the Bible to do so. But as I thought you failed to study them. I know this because you responded way to fast to my last comment. So my observation of your critiqus were correct “you are being very close minded in this subject”. Your lack of digging for the truth only supports my observation of you as to wanting nothing else but to argue. I do beleive you are smarter than that, and I have know doubt that you are sincere in your beleif. I pray that God continues to grow you in your Faith, and I mean no ill will toward you. But I do have the complete right to voice my observation of your shallow attempts to dicredit this great subject of (The Gospel of The Glory of Christ). You say you have studied this subject “four or five years” it really looks like you have studied nothing about this subject. I will say that you give a lot of study to what you beleive. But that is not what we are dealing with, that does’t matter. It also does’t matter what I beleive, but what does matter is what the whole Word of God says. And it says what it means. You go ahead and turn all this into a (question) and keep avoiding the (facts) if you like, and you can use some philosophical reply if you would like, but remember every body that reads this discussion is not as dumb as you would have them think that they are. Now I would like to give a freindly (critique) to my frend Mark Adams: TRY HARDER! It will take much more effort on your part to explain the(facts) in Hebrews 4:12 away. It also doesn’t matter if one could argue, or they’re could be, or you could look at it like this. These tools that you use to discredit me and others are “speculation”.

  14. Regarding your analysis of Heb. 4:12, my aim is not to discredit you, but to demonstrate that what you sincerely believe to be a fact is an interpretation. I am cognizant that man being three parts is essential to your theology, but that will not make five, “three.” Heb. 4:12 plainly mentions five distinct parts of man: spirit, soul, joints, marrow, and heart. If, as you propose, joints, marrow and heart are actually one part of man, then it follows that spirit and soul are another. At least you must concede that one can read the text that way.

    I, however, must note a certain desperation in your argument. “Your attempt to dicredit my comment only backs up what I said even more” & “I deal with what the scripture says. Hebrews 4:12 is a (fact) and no matter how hard you try you can not explaine it away with philosophy.” Frankly, such statements are pathetic and arrogant in the extreme. Your last paragraph was an absolute waste of time. I simply won’t abide personal invective; it serves no purpose.

    So now it is time to “TRY HARDER!” If your doctrine is correct present one verse that says carnal Christians will be excluded/punished in the millennial kingdom. If you can’t do that, I have nothing more to say to you. I’m not going to wade through paragraphs of unsubstantiated rhetoric anymore. It’s time to let the scriptures do the talking.

  15. Mark, John Calvin would be very proud of you.
    Because, it is easy to see you choose not to work hard enough in your study. I give you scripture and (you choose) not to research it. You gave a challenge, and I gave you scripture. But you still have no answer for the challenge I gave you. All I ask is for you to study the scripture I gave you, and (you choose) not to. This is not kindergarden, and I am not going to call you name’s, I’ll leave that to you. But; it will take more than a few little name’s to intemidate me my friend.
    I’m not giving up on you my friend. I see potintial in you, if you would start studying, and stop critiquing! So I just thought it was a waist to let this web site just sit here not being used. So if you are not willing to study this subject in depth, I will respect your decision and stop commenting on your site. So we will just let this forum, you have constructed, just sit here with no discusion, as it has been all summer. As I said before “TRY HARDER”.
    Now I will give you the respect you deserve, for giving any one the chance to speak on this subject in this forum. You can have the last word, and we will let the readers make up their own minds about this subject. If you would like me to respond to you in the future just let me know and I will gladly do so.
    Your brother in Christ;
    Arlen Banks

  16. Really, you gave me a scripture which answers my challenge? I’m quite excited. Would you be so kind as to provide the precise reference? This is very exciting. I can’t wait…

  17. Mathew, 16:24,25,26,27,28 (KJV)

    24.Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross, and follow me.
    25. For whosoever will save his life will lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
    26. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
    27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
    28. Verily I say unto you, there be some standing hear, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Jesus is not speaking of lost people here. A lost man can’t take up a cross, because he is dead in his trespasses and sin. Only Jesus could carrie the cross for the lost. Also he is not saying one will lose his salvation if one chooses not to deny himself and take up his own cross. Notice the word (soul) and the word (life) in these verses, they’re translated from one Greek word (psoo-khay’). The (soul) is the(life) of a human. The (soul) or (life) is what Jesus is speaking of loseing in the world to come. We know he is speaking of the next age, because he goes on to speak of him comeing in his kingdom. Thats a (fact). Pay attention to the context Mark, in these verses, because if you notice in the last verse, Jesus is speaking of the comeing kingdom. That is a (fact). Before you say these are lost individuals you better pay close attention to the context of what is being said, and who it is being said to. You can have the last word, unless you would like me to comment further.
    Your brother in Christ,
    Arlen Banks

  18. And I will note that nothing in Mathew, 16:24-28 supports the claim that carnal Christians will be temporarily punished/excluded in the millennial kingdom.

    A. The millennial kingdom is not mentioned.
    B. Carnal Christians are not mentioned.
    C. There is no statement pertaining to temporary punishment.

    I’ve been down this road with other exclusionists, and I am more than willing to go down it with you. Your challenge is to find a passage or multiple passages that say carnal Christians will be temporarily punished/excluded in the millennial kingdom (I put those words in bold-face so that you understand precisely what it is I am objecting to). Most likely you will barrage me with a series of verses, and say that these verses “must mean” or “can only mean” that carnal Christians will be temporarily excluded during the thousand-year rule of Christ. If you were to find such a passage, or passages, I’d shut down… but I know that there is no such passage, only people insisting that there is.

    I will not accept speculation as fact.

    Finally, I would like to state for the record that was established in order to have ongoing conversations. No one is going to get the last word. If that’s what you’ve come for, you’ve come to the wrong place.

  19. “Not a good enough answer Mark. As you always do, you avoid looking at what is under your nose. ‘STUDY MORE’ and ‘TRY HARDER’.”

    Book. Chapter. Verse. That’s all I ask…

  20. You know, I’m going to let visitors of decide for themselves:

    My challenge — Find a text that says carnal Christians will be temporarily excluded/punished from the millennial kingdom.

    Matthew 16:25 — “For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”

    Does anyone see mention of the millennial kingdom? Temporary punishment? Carnal Christians?

    1. I am a seeker of truth in Jesus & only want to get clear.

      Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
      Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
      Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
      Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

      Who is this man ? Why was he bound? Weeping & gnashing?

      Seems to me this man was a believer, he got to the wedding, could an unregenerate man even get close to the wedding?

      1. Whether a believer or an unregenerate man, it is clear that this man was called, but not chosen. This is Jesus’ theological point, which he makes explicit. Jesus does not tell his audience that this parable describes the millennial rule or the punishment of believers.

        That you begin your comment with “seems to me” suggests you understand that your view on this passage is highly interpretative. The issue is with your method. Parables make distinctive theological points — who is my neighbor? what is the kingdom like? etc. Except that we are taught what the individual components mean — if anything — people can only guess.

        If kingdom theology is based on guesses, I suggest it is not representative of truth.

  21. Mark if you look really, REALLY hard, you will see it…..

    “For whoever would save his life [i.e. his carnal ways] will lose [his crown of glory], but whoever loses his life [runs the race well and gets the salvation of his soul] for my sake will find it [a place in my REvelation 20 kingdom as royalty].”

    You just haf to look reall hard.

  22. I am new to your forum but my wife and I just spent several week looking at and participating at Cornerstone Fellowship, Pastored by John Herbert.
    I have spent two private sessions with him at his office. He is a follower of Arlen Chitwood, who is a follower of Dr Joseph Dillow. Like many of you I could not see how they could come up with such absolute interpretations of splitting up the Body of Christ during the 1000 year reign of Christ. I graduated from Cornerstone University out of Grand Rapids Michigan. [no relationship with Cornerstone Fellowship whatsoever]. There seems to be an arrogance and sense of superiority over any college or seminary that has a contrary view. I was shocked and revolted at the teachings of blood bought Christians suffering 1000 years of a kind of purgatory. Romans chapter 8, the victory chapter for ALL believers says that those he called, he justified and those He justified He glorified. I see no room for punishment in these verses. The Bema Seat of Christ will test our works and carnal Christians will suffer a loss of [reward not their souls] position in the millennial reign of Christ but they will still be redeemed and be there as God’s children. Revelation 20 makes clear that the 1st resurrection of LIFE that will include all believers will reign with Christ. I find that these teachings of “outer darkness” for believers to be very bad theology that does not take into consideration all that Christ has done for us. Carnal Christians do not deserve salvation but neither do I because I know myself to have been carnal at certain times in my life. Thank God of a High Priest in the Heavens who forgives sin and has the power to transform my lowly life into a life that will reflect His Divine nature. We are obligated to obey and to walk in the Spirit but these teachings are a works based salvation of the “soul” that borders on heresy even though they claim your spirit is saved by grace. Here is a link worth studying that will help those deceived [in my opinion] by this teaching:

    Let pray for one another and let us love one another until the Messiah comes.

    1. It is almost comical (and tragic) that Protestant believers would recreate purgatory, but that is essentially what they’ve done. Very odd.

        1. The outer darkness is a metaphor for the place where the unsaved will be forever. The outer darkness is not a place for saved, believing Christians. Nor is the outer darkness a lake, as in the lake of fire in Revelation.

    2. Thank you for your comments. I have a close friend who has gotten involved in this movement and I am very concerned . ONE of my red flags regarding the teaching of “soul salvation” is that it took God’s Only Son, a Lamb without spot or blemish to do die for me, to satisfy God’s requirement for the forgiveness of sin but according to the “Kingdom beliefs” I have that same ability in my sin nature to redeem my soul by my good works. To me this is absolute heresy and a dangerous teaching.

      1. Nancy, you don’t redeem your own soul!!!! I’m sorry you don’t understand soul salvation. You’re responsible to die to yourself daily and submit your will to the will of The Father in obedience. The Bible says ‘work out your salvation with fear and trembling’ Phil. 2:12

        Initial salvation is by grace alone without works. If we are commanded to work out our salvation than obviously there is another salvation spoken of here. The judgment seat of Christ is not to judge whether we have initial salvation. We wouldn’t be AT the judgment seat if we weren’t saved. It’s a judgment based on works done in the body. 2 Cor. 5:10. We have to qualify for soul salvation and it won’t be realized in this life. It pertains to our future positioning in His coming Kingdom and that we will find out at the Judgment Seat of Christ!!

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